We had connections with the San Jose Police dept, Good Samaritan Hospital, The Foundry School, The Bill Wilson House, Teen Challenge, Victory Outreach etc,etc. I wore a wig to school for about 6 months until my hair grew out enough that I wasnt ashamed of how I looked. Its just that the timeline suggests grief at the loss of his wife has something to do with why he started sinning that way. I do think CR is better, but even as good as CR is the results are anything but impressive. Lets Take a Breather With A Bizarre Story about R.C. Couldnt even stand up. He who is without sin cast the first stone. But not everyone is an alcoholic nor should they be classified as such. She just trotted out a few scripture verses as though that will take care of everything. Confession that his drunkenness IS sin (it sounds like that alone would be a huge step), then repentance toward God (making a U-turn and living a completely different life) AND toward others (asking forgiveness of everyone he has wronged) these would be HUGE steps for him. The innocent must be protected. In fact, they need to drink quantities, just to feel normal and function normally. But then (if Im remembering right), at some point in the progression of the disease, they cross some boundary and reach the point where they cant hold their liquor anymore. Through thick and thin just be there, as you spoke of. I wonder if the people who are advocating for alcoholics to be removed from a church mean only specifically a person who also works in a leadership position, such as pastor? Parental instincts are to protect your child at all costs. In this particular case, RC2, there is more involved than just the alcohol issue. Nor is it brave of me to admit here in public that Im diabetic its not an admission at all, any more than it is to say that I have perfect pitch (musically) but that, at almost 49, I need glasses these days to read small print. Thanks, Okrapod, for posting the quote you were referring to. Assuming there is a correlation only gives Sproul the perfect excuse he needs to justify his drinking, and I can guarantee you its also the excuse he used with his drunk driving attorney who then used it on the Prosecutor and Judge: My client lost his wife to cancer in 2011 and his daughter in 2012. But when we have followed the path of destruction he has left in his wake for decades, I hope you can understand why our first reaction was not Get treatment for RC2. Its just that our first thought is for his past victims and future victims if he is allowed to continue. What is that about? The Bible shows us how, and helps us to do that. @ okrapod: View Esther Taylor Indianapolis Im just acknowledging the reality of what was your life and what is their life. It is great in this day and age with blogs etc. (Of course, I maintain that our coming to the particular clinic was a godsend, actually. There are phone books with that same information. I was trying to offer some even-handed commentary. He died that Wednesday in the afternoon. After internship I started a residency in psychiatry but I did not finish the residence. obituary "R.C. They abuse the gift of grace, and on top of that, they model that abusive behavior to people who lack discernment. As such, certain biblically qualified believers are chose from among the body of Christ to perform certain biblical ministries such as elder and deaconpositions that are selected and maintained by stringent biblical qualifications. As it turned out, my depression was more a symptom or a side effect, not the cause of my issues but no doctor I ever saw caught it. Ann Sproul passed away at age 65 years old on August 9, 1996. Any time Ive ever gone to a church, what normally happens is I attend a Sunday School class where a teacher raises some topic (not pertaining to alcoholism), then I go and sit in the large worship area where I listen to a rock band play. Not any system that overlooks his cries for that help. Though Im not a drinker. The point to this story is that alcohol, for some people, is almost invariably destructive and those that love them have a limited ability to help them. 2. being too negative and saying nothing works (which I did not say in the first place). I communicated directly with one of his children and received confirmed that this quote was from one of them (and also received permission to post it here). God bless you and your friend in every way, and so glad you are here, Deb. Welcome to TWW! There are people who are alcoholics and yes, the first drink (beer, etc.) These men have made fortunes off the backs of faithful, trusting people. Dee and Deb have written how many horrific cases here of people who have been subjected to Biblical Church Discipline? The Orlando Sentinel published a fitting obituary on December 15, here included in part: [2]. We came out of one of those churches. What that entails goes far beyond boundaries and often means marital separation, i.e. Enter a grandparent's name. It didnt sober him up but its good for maintenance of the recovery. Good grief, this is so annoying, Velour. It should also be noted that removing someone from the church, for a time, does not mean they are declared an unbeliever. Odds are remote that RC Jr will ever go, but the CR program can be extremely helpful to family members. I appreciate Barbaras ministry to domestic violence victims on her and Jeff Crippens blog. A gamer I knew got rammed and killed by a drunk driver around 20 years ago. That took many months to heal. By the way if you had bothered to read the post, you can see I did find some help by way of material by MHPs, but I had to find that material on my own, because the MHPs I consulted in person over years were or no help. I would tend to agree with her about this person, assuming that he has, as some have claimed, publicly and speaking from some position of religious prominence defended his actions. More and more articles have been released in the last 15 years containing information from studies saying that anti-depressant medications do not work for most people. Since yall are medical people, is alcoholism a disease? Based on his history I am sure he did it numerous times without getting caught. Talk about a great way of destroying the faith of children! . Maybe she was advocating for it to be done in public (? My guess is not because RC Jr has a long history of feigning submission for the sake of appearance. Nobody blames him, but nobody fails to monitor his behavior either. Sproul Sr. will experience, Heres hoping Dees post will have such an impact on someone that they will resolve to. It works some of the time. One of the grandparents of my generation has relatively early dementia-the same thing that killed his mother and the same disease that has now stricken him. My friends parents were killed on impact, and my friend was severely injured. No human is exempt and even a hint not guilty. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. R C Sproul Junior needs to be put out of the church and that needs to be very publicly done because he has been so significant at Ligonier. There are many Christians who lurk here who struggle with addictions. I look at it as a psychiatric disorder which becomes an addiction that causes a number of physiological diseases. Haha. I understand. When there are cover-ups to protect the leader, whole families shunned because they dont like the church, those are certainly red flags. The one thing we learned is that you cannot change someone else. Regardless of if Sproul Jr is a drinker or not, I am having a hard time mustering sympathy for him, if its true hes unfairly ostracizing people from his church, using adultery sites, etc. What he did was wrong and could have been much worse than it turned out to be. Velour said: Actually, yes, several people have never mentioned treatment. RC Sproul Jr has characterized abortion as a terrible form of violence and a "holocaust" against the pre-born. Please pardon me for saying this, but from the tone of your comments, it seems as if your reaction was more to go to war with Barbara than to try to find out what she actually meant. I suppose those who loved his late father, R.C. So Velour, you have now ordered JulieAnne around by telling her what she needs to do. To simply kick them out, in my opinion, is wrong. Barbaras comment on Friday at 5:40 p.m. Christiane, this works both ways. Of course people have to want sobriety for it to work. . I think that was what Barbara was in part advocating for up thread. Velour has been advocate for many hurting people here on this blog, offering prayer lists, & reminding people to give, if they can, to help those in need on TWW, also giving of her own resources. Sproul was born on February 13, 1939 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA. What Jesus commanded of us. For all that you talked about how you knew about recovery programs, you showed a lack of knowledge about Al-Anon (for the family and friends of problem drinkers) and said to Lisa who posted here what they would tell her to do if she went, including that sponsors would advocate separation. a form of abuse that sounds remarkably similar to the same abuse RC Jr has inflicted on dozens of people. A lovely woman in my church was an alcoholic. Just that God, even when I was doubting him the most, was faithful.). I shouldnt have used the term unpleasant because Al-Anon isnt that at all. So youre uncomfortable with those truths. Being around others in a church setting may help resolve a need for companionship, but Im not seeing how it would cure somebody of a condition that would likely need medical intervention or the attention or professionals. Just search his name and spiritual abuse, etc. Why do you feel the need to assume things about people without asking? In fact, in my post there last Monday I express outrage about how PCA churches are often excommunicating victims of domestic abuse for divorcing their abusers. Sigh. R.C. I appreciate the kind words. In fact just this evening I went to mass followed by a going away party for our young and much beloved assistant pastor (who is being assigned by the Jesuits to another location much to all our distress). Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. He pleaded no contest to one and the rest were dismissed. I am commenting on the same statement you commented on. To the best of my knowledge she does not have training in the subject of alcoholism. In fact in his case it goes much further than it went with you. and a lot of people think they are helping when they are just enabling the status quo Church counseling may be harmful at times, but my experience (and my familys experience) with secular programs or treatment has not always been successful, either. Generally will not drink around them. And have a happy upcoming wedding anniversary. The church. U.S., Newspapers.com Marriage Index, 1800s-current. ), We tell our readers that we prefer them not to use the word codependent when describing victims of domestic abuse. Who lurk here who struggle with addictions parental instincts are to protect child. Drunk driver around 20 years ago to protect your child at all impact on that... 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